Girls Just Want to Hear Other Girls Talk
I had this situation occur just last night. My wife and her best friend were in the front seats, my daughter and the best friend’s daughter (who are also best friends) were in the next set of seats, and I and my son were in the back seat of our van as went to see the latest Indiana Jones’ picture, which my wife’s brother worked on. Just a little spoiler to let you know that my wife’s brother’s name was left off the credits at the end of the movie, which did spoil the ending for us as we looked for it and then had to call him up to find out what happened. As it turns out, even in a picture like Indiana Jones, where the credits run on for ages, studio executives still have to decide which names to list and which names to trim off, since running credits does cost money. But I digress.
As I look back on it, did Lynn Johnston have a camera in my car? As I think about the whole trip to and from the movie theatre, I would have to say the answer to that question is a big, fat “No”. My wife and her best friend chatted like their daughters weren’t there. Their daughters chatted like their mothers weren’t there. There was no texting back and forth, and there was no motherly concern about daughters being too quiet.
However, there are big differences between the situation in For Better or For Worse and in my family. For one thing, the lady in the front seat is Connie Poirier and not Eva Abuya’s mother, whom we have never met. For another thing, although Elly has met Eva before for April’s birthday celebrations in 2006 and 2007 and mall shopping in 2007, they have never had an actual mother-to-best friend-of-my-daughter conversation. This may come as a surprise to Lynn Johnston, but some mothers actually are interested in their daughters enough to find out a little about who they are hanging around with. In fact, and this may come as a shock to some people, but fathers sometimes do the same thing.
So, when I see this scene of Elly Patterson constantly fretting that April and Eva are not talking, instead of having her own conversation with Connie Poirier and ignoring her daughter, would I say that this is in character for Elly? Is she really worried that her daughter and Eva have had some kind of fight, and that is why they are not talking? You know, I would have to say, “Yes” to this one. April and Eva have fought before. April has a history of breaking up friendships (re: Becky McGuire and Gerald Delaney), and she has no female friends aside from Eva and Shannon Lake. This is despite having been born and spent her entire life in Milborough. April has no extracurricular activities in high school aside from her now-defunct band. April should have a lot of female friends, and yet her only ones are a girl who moved to the school system 2 years ago, and special needs girl, with whom April rarely socializes.
As it turns out, Eva and April are not fighting, but are texting to keep Elly from eavesdropping in on their conversation. There you have it. Elly eavesdropping and Elly ignoring Connie Poirer. In other words, Elly is rude and her social skills leave much to be desired. I wonder where April learns her antisocial behaviour.
As I look back on it, did Lynn Johnston have a camera in my car? As I think about the whole trip to and from the movie theatre, I would have to say the answer to that question is a big, fat “No”. My wife and her best friend chatted like their daughters weren’t there. Their daughters chatted like their mothers weren’t there. There was no texting back and forth, and there was no motherly concern about daughters being too quiet.
However, there are big differences between the situation in For Better or For Worse and in my family. For one thing, the lady in the front seat is Connie Poirier and not Eva Abuya’s mother, whom we have never met. For another thing, although Elly has met Eva before for April’s birthday celebrations in 2006 and 2007 and mall shopping in 2007, they have never had an actual mother-to-best friend-of-my-daughter conversation. This may come as a surprise to Lynn Johnston, but some mothers actually are interested in their daughters enough to find out a little about who they are hanging around with. In fact, and this may come as a shock to some people, but fathers sometimes do the same thing.
So, when I see this scene of Elly Patterson constantly fretting that April and Eva are not talking, instead of having her own conversation with Connie Poirier and ignoring her daughter, would I say that this is in character for Elly? Is she really worried that her daughter and Eva have had some kind of fight, and that is why they are not talking? You know, I would have to say, “Yes” to this one. April and Eva have fought before. April has a history of breaking up friendships (re: Becky McGuire and Gerald Delaney), and she has no female friends aside from Eva and Shannon Lake. This is despite having been born and spent her entire life in Milborough. April has no extracurricular activities in high school aside from her now-defunct band. April should have a lot of female friends, and yet her only ones are a girl who moved to the school system 2 years ago, and special needs girl, with whom April rarely socializes.
As it turns out, Eva and April are not fighting, but are texting to keep Elly from eavesdropping in on their conversation. There you have it. Elly eavesdropping and Elly ignoring Connie Poirer. In other words, Elly is rude and her social skills leave much to be desired. I wonder where April learns her antisocial behaviour.
posted by howard at 1:19 AM
20 Comments:
I have to wonder where these four are going. Are they going to Toronto? The traffic comment would seem to indicate that. Why would this combination of women/girls be together? They certainly seem grim, with Connie staring out the window, Elly nagging, and Eva and April clearly holding a serious grudge against Elly. If Eva and April hate being around Elly so much, why did they agree to go on this outing? I look forward to finding it out what it is that they're doing.
I agree, it is not realistic to have two teen girls texting in the backseat of a car. I spend a fair amount of time around teen girls (I'm involved in Girl Scouting), and this has taught me one thing:
No two teen girls put together can keep their mouths shut for more than thirty seconds, tops. It doesn't matter if the penalty for speaking is death.
qnjones
Are they going to Toronto? The traffic comment would seem to indicate that.
That is my guess too. I certainly can’t see a little town like Milborough having majour traffic problems.
Why would this combination of women/girls be together?
My wedding-related guess is a bridal shower for Elizabeth being hosted by Candace, who lives in Toronto. However, that does not really explain the presence of Eva Abuya, whose only relationship to Connie and Elly is through April. Unless Elizabeth really knows so very women, that Eva is called on to do some sort of wedding duty. A more likely scenario might be Eva and April reprising their song composition from last summer for a crowd of special needs kids and Connie is there because she is interested. That would give them an opportunity to pull in Shannon Lake one last time, and have Shannon discuss her plans for the future.
If Eva and April hate being around Elly so much, why did they agree to go on this outing?
If the whole strip wasn’t a setup for the text message punchline, I would guess that they are tired of Elly listening in on their conversations. However, once you throw a joke setup into the mix with this strip, you can also throw any kind of logic.
No two teen girls put together can keep their mouths shut for more than thirty seconds, tops. It doesn't matter if the penalty for speaking is death.
On the talking part, I will definitely agree. However, Girl Scouting sounds a little rougher in your section of the country than it does here.
howard:
Is she really worried that her daughter and Eva have had some kind of fight, and that is why they are not talking? You know, I would have to say, “Yes” to this one.
Same here. One of Elly's primary concerns as a mature parent was that April spends more time in front of a keyboard than interacting with people in the real world. Leave to her to blame the new technology for something that has a biological cause.
Elly is rude and her social skills leave much to be desired. I wonder where April learns her antisocial behaviour.
We're on the same wavelength there. April's standoffishness is simply her playing follow the leader and aping her parents' inability to be sociable. That being said, Elly's lost the ability to admit that she's in the wrong. Before Farleygate, she'd have looked in the mirror and asked herself if April's taking after her was wrecking her social life. Now that she's convinced herself that she's infallible, it's the useless twisting of our new technology that's to blame.
I'm guessing that they're going to downtown Milborough. There was a monthly letter, I think from Dee, commenting that the commute from the Pattermanse to the Spigott Medical Building was about 45 minutes. I thought that this was strange and wrote in to Stephanie to ask about it. She wrote back that the suburbs of Toronto can have heavy traffic and it's not unusual to have commutes like that within one 'burb.
I'm also curious to see what today's strip is leading up to. My first thought was "Let April drive herself! She should have her G2 by now!" ;)
Bummer on your BIL's name being left out of the credits, howtheduck! Years ago, a friend of mine in undergrad was a production assistant for the film Mannequin, and a bunch of us went to a screening and stayed to read the credits for our friend's name. We were so excited when we found it. :)
The texting seemed realistic to me as I'd heard of something similar from a co-worker. He was driving his daughter and her friend somewhere and, at one point, contributed to their conversation. They fell strangely silent after that. When he looked back he saw them texting each other.
Idle etiquette question: Is it eavesdropping to listen to a conversation in a car? A car is a small space. I tend to assume that conversations in a car are potentially public. It's like people sitting around a dining room table. I wouldn't try to have a private, exclusive conversation there, either.
I do find the strip strangely empty, though. The whole thing could have been done in a single panel (imagine: drawing of four people in car; parent saying the girls in backseat are quiet; girls quietly texting in backseat with thought bubbles). Because FBoFW is not a one-panel comic, however, Lynn had to stretch the joke over four panels, and it stretches pretty thin.
I don't think Elly is concerned about her daughter & Eva's having fought so much as Lynn is trying to fill panel #3 and inform the reader that the girls are not talking aloud to set up the final gag.
dreadedcandiru2,
One of Elly's primary concerns as a mature parent was that April spends more time in front of a keyboard than interacting with people in the real world.
Yes, I remember "the creature is feeding" line from one of her interactions with April at the computer, and the time when she and John feared April was getting "bad information" from the internets.
aprilp_katje,
I'm guessing that they're going to downtown Milborough. There was a monthly letter, I think from Dee, commenting that the commute from the Pattermanse to the Spigott Medical Building was about 45 minutes. I thought that this was strange and wrote in to Stephanie to ask about it. She wrote back that the suburbs of Toronto can have heavy traffic and it's not unusual to have commutes like that within one 'burb.
I think this is the letter you remember:
Liz's Letter, September 2006
The school where I'll be teaching is at the opposite end of town from where my folks live. I've decided to move back in with them for a little while, just until I can find an ideal place to rent. A 40-minute commute (in traffic and winter weather - ideally it would be 20 minutes) is decent for this area, but of course I'd like to be a bit closer to the school.
In here, we are talking about a commute completely across Milborough, instead of going from the Pattersons' house to downtown, which presumably is somewhere in the middle. It is difficult to get a feel for Milborough, since I don't think the town is as well-developed in Lynn's mind as Mtigwaki was. For example, there have been a number of strips over the years where April and her gang go places (beach, mall, downtown) with no visible means of transport, which would lead you to believe she could walk there or Milborough had an excellent mass transit system.
Years ago, a friend of mine in undergrad was a production assistant for the film Mannequin, and a bunch of us went to a screening and stayed to read the credits for our friend's name.
Well, the same thing happened when we saw X-Men 3, on which he worked, but his name was left off. However, we saw Charley Wilson's War this year, and his name was easy to spot. Unfortunately that was not a movie to which we could take the kids.
Anonymous
They fell strangely silent after that. When he looked back he saw them texting each other.
I would say that if you go from conversation to not talking, you have definitely moved to a conversation that the kids don't want the adult to hear.
Is it eavesdropping to listen to a conversation in a car?
The rules here are similar to the rules where you are in any public venue and hear other people talking, for example: a restaurant, or a ball game. You certainly would not want to have a private, exclusive conversation in that venue. However, it is considered rude to be obviously, trying to overhear what the other people are saying in their conversation. In Elly's case, she is not talking to Connie, which is OK if Connie does not want to talk; but instead of quietly observing that the other passengers are not talking and texting (as your friend did), she feels the need to mention it and inquire about it.
Because FBoFW is not a one-panel comic, however, Lynn had to stretch the joke over four panels, and it stretches pretty thin.
As Lynn showed in this strip FBoFW can be a one-panel comic. The number of panels used is fixed by Lynn, but if she uses fewer panels, then she has to fill in the space with more background art, and you can tell by the liberal use of black on the backgrounds in today's strip, this is not what Lynn wants to do.
I don't think Elly is concerned about her daughter & Eva's having fought so much as Lynn is trying to fill panel #3 and inform the reader that the girls are not talking aloud to set up the final gag.
Absolutely. There have never been any consequences / resolution of the Eva / April fight except to set up that April had to realize her mother understood her feelings, and she had to take a hug. The next time we saw Eva with April, it was as if the fight had never occurred. I was trying to imagine what could be the motivation for the characters, as if the author cared about more than setting up a final gag for a strip.
Hmm...maybe this combination of people is together because it;s a lead-in to a flashback of some sort?
Or do the flashbacks even have lead-ins anymore? They don't seem to.
And, text messaging is expensive. I don't have a cell phone myself, but I've heard stories about kids racking up huge bills from too many text messages.
I disagree that they could be going to a bridal shower. First, showers are not held until after a wedding date is set. This is because no one should be invited to a shower if she is not also invited to the wedding, so you need a guest list. Eva is very unlikely to be on that guest list. Even if April were allowed to bring a friend, it is likely she would be asked to bring one who will not start screaming about cowboys during the ceremony.
Oh, I hope qnjones is right. I don't think I can stand to see everyone standing around at a bridal shower (with only a few real characters there, and the rest of bunch of shadow women) while Liz is feted for having gotten such a "wonderful catch". Yech. But at least we would get to see Granthony's mother finally.
It seems so strained for Elly and Connie to be sitting silence; seems as though Elly asked why the girls weren't talking because the lack of conversation was uncomfortable. But then again, Elly has little to talk about outside of her wonderful older two children.
And not only did April pick up those great social skills from Elly, remember Liz's "introduction" to Julia at S-M's wedding? Julia had to carry the conversation and Liz acted like a snotty prima donna during the entire wedding.
Muzition,
Or do the flashbacks even have lead-ins anymore? They don't seem to.
The “Dr. John Patterson has problems with his patients/patience” has a pretty good lead-in and a use of reprints along a theme. Of course it was the first flashback to do that. But maybe Lynn Johnston has heard our complaint, and the next round may be more the same, similarly-themed flashback material.
qnjones,
First, showers are not held until after a wedding date is set.
However, this is For Better or For Worse where you ask people to be your bridesmaids without setting a wedding date, having an engagement ring, or even saying the word “love” to your groom.
Even if April were allowed to bring a friend, it is likely she would be asked to bring one who will not start screaming about cowboys during the ceremony.
There is that downside. However, I could see Elly saying to April, “Maybe between you and your sister, you might have enough female friends to make up one wedding ceremony.”
howard:
But maybe Lynn Johnston has heard our complaint, and the next round may be more the same, similarly-themed flashback material.
Let's hope so. Watching Elly struggle with appliances as if she were Ozzy Osbourne should provide us with some cheap laughs.
debjyn
Oh, I hope qnjones is right. I don't think I can stand to see everyone standing around at a bridal shower (with only a few real characters there, and the rest of bunch of shadow women) while Liz is feted for having gotten such a "wonderful catch".
This is very likely to be the case, no matter when the bridal shower occurs. There have been opportunities to reacquaint ourselves with old characters through what has been 4 Mike book-related parties in the last 15 months, and Lynn has chosen in each case to put in unknown characters or silhouettes instead.
But at least we would get to see Granthony's mother finally.
Assuming that she is not dead.
And not only did April pick up those great social skills from Elly, remember Liz's "introduction" to Julia at S-M's wedding? Julia had to carry the conversation and Liz acted like a snotty prima donna during the entire wedding.
True enough. And also at Mike’s party held at Weed’s where she took Warren, Liz did not introduce him around. Gordon and Tracey had to introduce themselves.
Yeah, Howard, I kind of realized after I typed that stuff about wedding etiquette that Lynn won't feel bound by it. But I'm really hoping that we aren't about to see a wedding shower. Ugh.
Also, I can't imagine why Eva would WANT to go to a bridal shower. What teen would want to spend what little money she has on a shower gift for her friend's older sister, whom she has never met?
qnjones
Also, I can't imagine why Eva would WANT to go to a bridal shower. What teen would want to spend what little money she has on a shower gift for her friend's older sister, whom she has never met?
Well, as for desire to attend, this will be the wedding of the century. Plus, Lynn has a tendency to put people in places they don't belong. After all Elly and April went to Therese's baby shower, having never met Therese before and with their relationship with Anthony based on Liz being his ex-girlfriend. Eva and Liz met once in this strip, but it was not much of a meeting. Lynn could make it work, if that's what she wanted. I hope it is, if for no other reason than possibly to hear April and Eva speak rhapsodically about how their bridal showers are going to be.
howtheduck, actually the passage in question had been from Michael's March 2007 letter:
Up until now, we had been looking for an apartment somewhere between the pharmacy where Deanna works and the magazine. The pharmacy is between my parents' place and the city - a 45-minute drive which she often shares, now, with my dad. They work in the same building. It took her an hour to get there from Lovey's apartments, so her time is cut down by a good 15 minutes. Commuters count minutes the way scrooge counted gold.
I found my e-mail exchange with Stephanie. I wrote:
I was a bit confused when Michael's March 2007 letter described Dee's commute. She used to commute an hour from Toronto, but now she commutes 45 minutes, from one part of Milborough to another? This suggests the Milborough is larger than I'd imagined! (As I remember, John and Dee do work in Milborough.)
Stephanie responded:
I can see how you'd find the commute calculations confusing, although they do make sense. I grew up in a Toronto suburb; quite often, especially these days, it can take just as long to drive across town using city streets as it can take to get into Toronto if you hop onto the 401 where the speed limit is 100 kph and there are express lanes. The infrastructure hasn't really kept up with the population growth. My hometown has literally doubled in population in the ten years since I left; the traffic congestion, extra traffic lights, lowered speed limits and new housing developments make driving across town a long process now. An hourlong commute to Toronto vs a 45 minute commute within town isn't much of a stretch.
aprilp_katje,
As it turns out, it is just a trip to the mall. Oh well!
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