Sympathizing With John
In today’s For Better or For Worse, John Patterson is taken to task for doing the dishes when he never used to do them. He comes to the conclusion that he should never have done the dishes, because his act of cleaning has drawn criticism. This isn’t the first time this has happened for John, as he has caught flack for his dishwashing loading technique and his laundry-folding technique. It’s Elly’s way or no way in his house. This is, unfortunately, a situation to which I can easily relate.
Back in my early days of marriage, I had a way of cleaning bathrooms taught to me by my mother, and that was the method I used. My wife had a different way that she liked. Upon discovering I had this different way. I was encouraged to clean bathrooms the way she did it (and by encouraged, I mean a very Ellyesque style of complaining). It should be mentioned that my wife HATES cleaning bathrooms, but is still quite opinionated about the way they should be done.
I adopted this method and followed it for years, until…my wife decided she didn’t want me to clean that way anymore and the Ellyesque style of complaining appeared again. By this time, I was quite set in my ways, which were her old ways, and which I consider to be superiour to her new way of cleaning. I have expressed this opinion to her on multiple occasions.
The point of dispute is my wife likes the smell of these florally/orangey-scented cleaners which have come on the market in the last few years. I do not like those cleaners, because they do not clean as well as my more institutionally-smelling cleaners. (I did give them a test run for a few weeks at one point, which left me frustrated at their inability to remove dirt and grime. Things did not smell as much like strong chemicals, but they also did not look as clean.
The solution for me was to give in and do it my wife’s way, and grumble to myself a lot. By the way, the bathrooms in my house are not as clean as I would like, but they smell pretty. Grumble. Grumble. Just thought I’d let you know.
When John Patterson has his regret for ever doing the dishes, I can definitely relate. However, if I were to give him some advice, I would say, “John. If you have more time to help out, stay far away from household chores about which Elly has a strong opinion or that she does all the time (like laundry or dishes). Concentrate on those household chores that need to be done, but she hates to do, or she does infrequently (like cleaning out the refrigerator). Your chances are better to avoid interference if you go that route.”
Back in my early days of marriage, I had a way of cleaning bathrooms taught to me by my mother, and that was the method I used. My wife had a different way that she liked. Upon discovering I had this different way. I was encouraged to clean bathrooms the way she did it (and by encouraged, I mean a very Ellyesque style of complaining). It should be mentioned that my wife HATES cleaning bathrooms, but is still quite opinionated about the way they should be done.
I adopted this method and followed it for years, until…my wife decided she didn’t want me to clean that way anymore and the Ellyesque style of complaining appeared again. By this time, I was quite set in my ways, which were her old ways, and which I consider to be superiour to her new way of cleaning. I have expressed this opinion to her on multiple occasions.
The point of dispute is my wife likes the smell of these florally/orangey-scented cleaners which have come on the market in the last few years. I do not like those cleaners, because they do not clean as well as my more institutionally-smelling cleaners. (I did give them a test run for a few weeks at one point, which left me frustrated at their inability to remove dirt and grime. Things did not smell as much like strong chemicals, but they also did not look as clean.
The solution for me was to give in and do it my wife’s way, and grumble to myself a lot. By the way, the bathrooms in my house are not as clean as I would like, but they smell pretty. Grumble. Grumble. Just thought I’d let you know.
When John Patterson has his regret for ever doing the dishes, I can definitely relate. However, if I were to give him some advice, I would say, “John. If you have more time to help out, stay far away from household chores about which Elly has a strong opinion or that she does all the time (like laundry or dishes). Concentrate on those household chores that need to be done, but she hates to do, or she does infrequently (like cleaning out the refrigerator). Your chances are better to avoid interference if you go that route.”
posted by howard at 10:40 PM
18 Comments:
Elly's an idiot. At this rate, John will never wash a dish again.
If it makes you feel any better, I'd be much too appreciative of a clean bathroom to argue techniques. :)
Oh, dear. Once again, we see Elly setting herself up to fail and once again, someone else is going to get the blame. That way, nothing is ever her fault and she doesn't have to change her ways. She can stay nailed to her cross forever. And it's not just John and the housework. As we've seen, she blames the pets for the havoc they wreak because she won't admit that she's lousy with animals and as for the kids, we know who's responsible for the mess their lives were.
Howard, I know EXACTLY what you mean…
Now, if the tables were turned and my husband were to criticize my housekeeping skills, he’d be sleeping in the bathtub--his mother’s bathtub!
My dad once said to my mother, “What do you do all day?” Her response, “NOTHING. I DO NOTHING ALL DAY.” And then she went on strike and did absolutely nothing in the house! For several days she ate all her meals in the local diners and he ate peanuts--bags and bags of raw peanuts. And he never said that again!
No good deed goes unpunished! is a universal behavior that empowers by victimhood. In my relationship with my husband I am more often the perpetrator. But let’s face it - the only reason I complain about the way he cleans the bathroom is because he doesn’t see the corners where all the germs creep around. And please don’t get me started about the way he does dishes. How does he expect anything to be clean when he hardly uses any detergent?
I like this strip and I love my husband.
Anon NYC
aprilp_katje
If it makes you feel any better, I'd be much too appreciative of a clean bathroom to argue techniques. :)
Your husband must be very happy when he is cleaning the bathroom. I hope he appreciates an uncriticized cleaning.
dreadedcandiru2,
Once again, we see Elly setting herself up to fail and once again, someone else is going to get the blame. That way, nothing is ever her fault and she doesn't have to change her ways. She can stay nailed to her cross forever.
Well, when you put it that way, that's motivation for her to do what she did. This cleaning criticism was a little different from prior strips on the same subject. Before John would acquiesce to Elly's desires and there would be a little "husband-wife" moment. This time she criticizes his dish-washing history and there is no "husband-wife" moment.
Anon NYC,
You are too funny today Anon NYC. I hope Lynn Johnston does some more cleaning stories, just so we can get your cleaning stories.
I sometimes wonder if John realizes that he was never meant to win an argument. No matter what he does, how much he evolves, he's always going to be the goat. Do you suppose that's why he spends all that time in his workshop?
dreadedcandiru2
I sometimes wonder if John realizes that he was never meant to win an argument.
Maybe not John, but I certainly do. The strip centers around Elly and events almost always turn to her benefit. Even when they moved to the George Stibbs’ house, and Elly did not agree to this move initially, her opinion was bought by the offer of new furniture and the agreement of all the other concerned parties (except for April). When Elly lost that argument, I can hardly consider it a loss.
Do you suppose that's why he spends all that time in his workshop?
No. The workshop is the traditional place for the man. As much as Elly may complain about John not doing the dishes, she has stuck very closely to the old style 1950s separation of the genders, i.e. the women does housework, man does home repair or anything involving heavy or dangerous tools.
My mother-in-law has that idea very much in her head, and the story I hear whenever I go to visit is about the time I washed and put away dishes for her during one of our visits, and there is that dish I washed she has never seen since (implying I put it away in the wrong place). On the other hand, when she comes to visit us, if the house is messy, she questions my wife, and if the garage is messy, she questions me.
I expect John is there in the workshop because that is where a man is supposed to be.
That, sadly, seems correct. That must be why Elly was so angry last year when she was scraping off the car: she'd somehow talked herself into doing John's job.
dreadedcandiru2,
That must be why Elly was so angry last year when she was scraping off the car: she'd somehow talked herself into doing John's job.
I am sure that is part of the reason. I can’t imagine her having a similar reaction if she discovered that she made the last dish dirty that filled a dishwasher, as it was with the car, where she was the last person to drive up to the house and so she parked outside.
That's true. She wouldn't really care about that because, hey, she could just as easily wash it by hand and no one would be the wiser. That's because washing dishes is her thing. Tending to vehicle maintenance, though, that's why she has a husband.
I really hate it when FOOB mirrors the relationship between my parents. It makes me sick to my stomach.
Here's what's going on: Back in the day, Elly was not happy with being forced into the housewife pigeonhole, where she stayed home and was entirely responsible for the housework. Back in the 1970s, women weren't SAHMs. They did not stay home by choice. There was not much option for an upper-middle class woman with a professional husband and kids. Those women didn't work because it was seen as shaming the husband if she did. She did not have the power to negotiate for a different situation. She had to suck it up and deal with her chauvanist jerk husband who came home, put his feet up, watched her continue to work into the wee hours, and called her fat.
By the end of the 1980s, there was more support for women in Elly's situation (suburban mom, upper middle class, husband a professional) to have other options (work, work at home, etc.). It was not seen as humiliating to the man for his wife to work, but as her expanding her horizons. The idea that a SAHM is not necessarily responsible for all housework came into being.
So, now John does his part. But Elly still resents those years when she was a second-class citizen and John did not even try to make her life a little brighter by doing the dishes occasionally.
John sees himself as being a good guy who follows expectations. Elly thinks he owes her some recognition that the old days were not fair to her.
So John feels put-upon when Elly does not simply pat him on the back and give him his thank you. He wants the thanks without ever being called to the carpet about the past. Elly doesn't want to just forget the past. Who knows what it would take to satisfy her--probably nothing would. But he doesn't even recognize that he had a huge part in turning Elly into a bitter and resentful woman, because he WAS a selfish ass for years and years. He thinks he should just get a pass on all that.
So they are both jerks, and are guaranteed to stay locked in a miserable marriage forever.
howtheduck, neither one of us particularly likes cleaning the bathrooms. However, when one of us does, the other one of us tends to go, "Yay, clean bathroom!" :)
qnjones, one thing I'd be curious to see (and that Lynn would never do) would be Elly choosing her moment and having a heart-to-hear with John about how she felt for all of those years and why. And to have him respond in a genuine (not punny and not martyred) way. As I said, it'll never happen.
This evening I decided to check my husband's reaction to today's strip of FBorFW and to today’s blog. It should be noted that he (He) has never read the HBB but only stopped reading FBorFW when it went hybrid.
I: Please look at FBorFW. What do you think?
He: I can relate to that!
I: Do you think it's funny?
He: No. I think it's real.
I: OK. Now read the blog
He: ha ha ha ha...
He: Thank you!
I: “Thank you” for what?
He: For saying that you love me!
I: What did you think of what I wrote? Was it funny?
He: No, it's the truth.
I: Are you insulted?
He: NOOOOOO!
I: No? Why not?
He: The bottom line is that you love me.
I: I have another question.
He: Well, what is it?
I: Do you think a wife can control the way her husband treats her parents?
He: Yes she can. The question is should she.
I: Can you be more specific.
He: Depending on the whole relationship dynamic, the outcome may not always be desirable. It depends on the personalities of the people involved. If the husband is resentful then it diminishes the effectiveness of what the wife is trying to accomplish. It’s possible that with time the husband may appreciate what the wife has forced him to do and then he will no longer feel resentful, or he may even feel good about it. It really depends.
I: One last question. What do I force you to do that you resent?
He: You call me from three rooms away. I know I also do it, but you do it much more often, and I really resent that. I wouldn’t call you from three rooms away to put drops in my ears.
He: Why do I feel that everything I’m saying is going on line?
I: Don’t be silly...
Anon NYC
qnjones,
Your experience with a family in the 1970s is very different from my own, where my mom worked her whole married life. Technically, she probably would not have been an upper middle class woman, and that may be the distinction.
However, your assessment of Elly and John is very accurate. Elly struggled for years to get out of the housewife pigeonhole, and that was the driving force behind many storylines. Judging from today’s strip, she is clearly bearing a grudge against John for his lack of housework all these years.
By the end of the 1980s, there was more support for women in Elly's situation (suburban mom, upper middle class, husband a professional) to have other options (work, work at home, etc.).
I remember this starting earlier. When I graduated from university in 1984, I interviewed with the SAS Institute in North Carolina, a company who was very proud of their on-site daycare facility, which was the first time I had heard of such a thing.
aprilp_katje,
However, when one of us does, the other one of us tends to go, "Yay, clean bathroom!" :)
You two may be too perky for me.
one thing I'd be curious to see (and that Lynn would never do) would be Elly choosing her moment and having a heart-to-hear with John about how she felt for all of those years and why.
Elly clearly needs to have some kind of resolution, but that may be what today’s strip was about.
Anon NYC
Another great story. Mr. Anon NYC sounds like a great guy, who has a good understanding of what is important.
Howard,
Yes, liberation of women happened earlier than it did among the wives of upper-middle class professionals. In my experience, lawyers, doctors, dentists, and MBAs all live in fairly particular, homogenous sub-cultures that are very similar to one another. (I'm talking mostly about the high earners; lawyers who work for nonprofits usually have a different culture.) The wives of those men were expected to stay home and "act right" longer than women in the middle-middle class were. Actually, the truth is that women in the lower-middle to middle-middle class often had jobs, even in the bad old days.
In fact, amongst those professional groups, it is still considered the norm to have a stay at home wife. It is a status symbol. Many (though not all) professional men will look down on a colleague whose wife works outside the home. The assumption often is that he will not be able to properly focus on his work if he also has to share the child care and housework burdens.
I could go into detail, but it's kind of boring.
Post a Comment
<< Home