I Think I Missed Something
Today’s For Better or For Worse had dialogue and domesticity between Anthony and Elizabeth which heavily suggested that if Elizabeth is not living with Anthony, then they are pretty close to it. Naturally, my reaction is, “I think I missed something. Weren’t they just dating and taking it slow?”
Sunday, July 22:
After the Shawna-Marie wedding is over. Our first view of Anthony and Elizabeth and Françoise is the park date, where Elizabeth says being with them is like a walk in the park. {Drum beat}
Status: A date has occurred.
Monday, August 6 – Saturday, August 12:
A repeat of the park date sequence for the daily readers, ending up in an ice cream shop and little Françoise asking her father if she can keep Elizabeth.
Status: Françoise has given her approval for Anthony to continue with Elizabeth.
Sunday, August 13:
Anthony and little Françoise are at the Patterson outdoor picnic. Françoise picks some flowers for Anthony, and that’s all they do.
Status: Acceptance of the relationship by other Pattersons, even if they don’t interact with Anthony or Françoise.
Sunday, August 19:
The list comparison date. Ends with Anthony and Elizabeth asking for the check quickly in order to make a joke about having said “check” in every panel prior.
Status: Anthony and Elizabeth have decided they are suitable partners. They decide to be physically intimate with each other.
Monday, August 20 – Saturday August 25:
Elizabeth discusses why Anthony’s marriage to Thérèse failed (the retcon version). Candace declares they are a couple. Elizabeth says it’s still friendship. Rule of thumb: When Elizabeth says it is friendship, it is never friendship. Candace predicts the future: (1) The ex-wife will show up and cause problems (2) Angelic Francie goes anti-Liz and (3) Liz is into recycling. We have seen (2) happen; but (1) and (3) are yet to come. After telling the Anthony and Thérèse story, Liz comes to the conclusion the relationship failed because you can’t change people. The end of the sequence has Liz telling Candace that Anthony is only starting to trust again, with a very sly and mysterious smile says, “Trust me…. he does (trust me)” to Candace.
Status: Anthony and Elizabeth have done something together which showed Liz that he trusts her. Is it the invitation to move in? Countering that idea is that Liz is clearly still in her apartment, talking to Candace.
Saturday, October 6:
At the end of the “Grandpa Jim has another stroke” sequence, Liz calls Anthony to take her driving and he does. At the end he tells Liz to lean on him for strength.
Status: Anthony listens to Elizabeth talk about her problems.
Then we have a Liz laundry sequence, which implies that Liz doesn’t do her laundry at Anthony’s place; but not much more than that, since Liz doesn’t mention Anthony the whole time she is talking to April. After having gone through this, I can make a case for Anthony and Elizabeth considering themselves to be a couple and having had sex. However, I don’t see where they went from that point to the comments they make in today’s strip about how Liz is “another woman in the house!” and she plans to be patient, so “some day, she’ll (Francie) will come to me”. That implies they are living together and plan to do so for the foreseeable future.
Is Lynn Johnston pulling the same kind of stunt she did with Eric Chamberlain, where Liz and Eric live together in university but have separate bedrooms? Then in the meantime, Lynn says in interviews Liz and Eric were intimate, but she will never state that in the strip.
Sunday, July 22:
After the Shawna-Marie wedding is over. Our first view of Anthony and Elizabeth and Françoise is the park date, where Elizabeth says being with them is like a walk in the park. {Drum beat}
Status: A date has occurred.
Monday, August 6 – Saturday, August 12:
A repeat of the park date sequence for the daily readers, ending up in an ice cream shop and little Françoise asking her father if she can keep Elizabeth.
Status: Françoise has given her approval for Anthony to continue with Elizabeth.
Sunday, August 13:
Anthony and little Françoise are at the Patterson outdoor picnic. Françoise picks some flowers for Anthony, and that’s all they do.
Status: Acceptance of the relationship by other Pattersons, even if they don’t interact with Anthony or Françoise.
Sunday, August 19:
The list comparison date. Ends with Anthony and Elizabeth asking for the check quickly in order to make a joke about having said “check” in every panel prior.
Status: Anthony and Elizabeth have decided they are suitable partners. They decide to be physically intimate with each other.
Monday, August 20 – Saturday August 25:
Elizabeth discusses why Anthony’s marriage to Thérèse failed (the retcon version). Candace declares they are a couple. Elizabeth says it’s still friendship. Rule of thumb: When Elizabeth says it is friendship, it is never friendship. Candace predicts the future: (1) The ex-wife will show up and cause problems (2) Angelic Francie goes anti-Liz and (3) Liz is into recycling. We have seen (2) happen; but (1) and (3) are yet to come. After telling the Anthony and Thérèse story, Liz comes to the conclusion the relationship failed because you can’t change people. The end of the sequence has Liz telling Candace that Anthony is only starting to trust again, with a very sly and mysterious smile says, “Trust me…. he does (trust me)” to Candace.
Status: Anthony and Elizabeth have done something together which showed Liz that he trusts her. Is it the invitation to move in? Countering that idea is that Liz is clearly still in her apartment, talking to Candace.
Saturday, October 6:
At the end of the “Grandpa Jim has another stroke” sequence, Liz calls Anthony to take her driving and he does. At the end he tells Liz to lean on him for strength.
Status: Anthony listens to Elizabeth talk about her problems.
Then we have a Liz laundry sequence, which implies that Liz doesn’t do her laundry at Anthony’s place; but not much more than that, since Liz doesn’t mention Anthony the whole time she is talking to April. After having gone through this, I can make a case for Anthony and Elizabeth considering themselves to be a couple and having had sex. However, I don’t see where they went from that point to the comments they make in today’s strip about how Liz is “another woman in the house!” and she plans to be patient, so “some day, she’ll (Francie) will come to me”. That implies they are living together and plan to do so for the foreseeable future.
Is Lynn Johnston pulling the same kind of stunt she did with Eric Chamberlain, where Liz and Eric live together in university but have separate bedrooms? Then in the meantime, Lynn says in interviews Liz and Eric were intimate, but she will never state that in the strip.
posted by howard at 10:56 PM
18 Comments:
This is a prime example of Lynn's failure as a creator. She doesn't seem to realize or accept that she has to put all her cards on the table. Did Liz lose her virginity? We have to be told no matter what the refrigerator set might think of her afterwards. Is she co-habiting with Anthony? We have to be given details, not nudge-nudge, wink-wink, say no more. Did Becky really go all the way with Jeffo? Again, we need solid facts instead of innuendo. We don't know what she knows about the characters but, say she yea or nay, deserve to have her level of understanding.
Is Lynn Johnston pulling the same kind of stunt she did with Eric Chamberlain, where Liz and Eric live together in university but have separate bedrooms? Then in the meantime, Lynn says in interviews Liz and Eric were intimate, but she will never state that in the strip.
Heh--before I got to this paragraph, I had the same thought pop into my head. I wouldn't put it past Liz to maintain an apartment solely for plausible deniability, until she and Anthony have exchanged their marriage vows.
It's not like the Pattersons are smart enough to realize her domestic relationships aren't what she says they are. That would require them to realize what a shallow manipulator she is. If they had to accept that, they'd have to realize that they plotted against Therese for nothing.
Right, April. Lynn still thinks she is writing for the blue-haired ladies and doesn't realize that co-habitation is common even in the Bible Belt.
But I think Lynn's creations echo Lynn's take on life: it's all about appearances. Liz got the apartment only so she wouldn't be obvious to the family and other that she is sleeping with Anthony.
Which brings up another point. My gosh, for two people who are physically intimate they are formal and unaffectionate with each other. As Howard said, wooden. Their relationship continues to be based on convenience and the fact no one else will have them. This is Lynn's wonderful dream come true for Liz?
DJ
Well, on the other hand Anthony DID say "in the house." Liz is obviously in the house during this panel. That doesn't mean she is living there.
Just my take on it.
Stella
Liz is obviously in the house during this panel. That doesn't mean she is living there.
Of course these things can be taken both ways, and that’s why it works. However, there are 3 things to take: (1) Francie says Liz is here “so much”, (2) Anthony’s comparison for “in the house” is not just that this is where Liz happens to be at that moment, but that the phrase is synonymous with saying “Francie knows Liz is taking the place of Thérèse”, and (3) Liz’s statement that Francie will come to her some day, is as if she is a permanent fixture in her life.
None of these statements say directly Liz is sleeping over or not; but they do make the case that as far as Liz and Anthony are concerned, they are essentially married. Anthony states pretty clearly Liz is replacing Thérèse. Liz says pretty clearly she is going to be around long enough for Francie to come to her. All we need now is a proposal and wedding to make it official.
DJ,
My gosh, for two people who are physically intimate they are formal and unaffectionate with each other.
They are reacting to each other as if they have already achieved the stage of relationship Deanna and Mike have or Elly and John have. It is almost as if Lynn Johnston is saying, “OK. It’s all right if you hug and kiss and do ballet moves at a wedding out in the dark, where no one can see you; but you better not do that any other time.” The alternate situation is one where Lynn Johnston is perhaps trying to draw a contrast with the romances of Liz with Paul or Warren, who were demonstrably affectionate even in public.
dreadedcandiru2,
Innuendo is the hallmark of old style writing, and I don’t mind it that much. Sometimes you don’t need those details. When it comes to showing old movies to my kids, I really appreciate innuendo, or a lot of those old movies would be off-limits to them.
I am more disturbed that Lynn has written Liz and Anthony as practically living together without any suitable lead-in to it. I thought we were going to see a little more dating and romance before we got to the “another woman in the house” stuff, since Lynn had said in one of her interviews we were going to get to know Anthony better, because he is such a stranger. Maybe that Sunday strip with the checklists is what she meant.
But if you really need details, Lynn said in her interviews Liz lost her virginity to Eric, and Becky lost her virginity to Jeffo. Obviously, Lynn doesn’t believe Liz has to be a virgin when she gets married, or she would have had Elly disown Liz the moment she found Liz was living with Eric. However, she does understand that certain of her readers have that expectation.
As for the Pattersons themselves, these are not highly religious or moral people. I doubt they would care if Liz was living with Anthony. The issue with Becky and Jeffo was that Becky was too young. We never saw April use the “roadside” term with Becky after that story was done. Likewise, when Deanna and Michael starting living together, I don’t remember seeing Elly make a big stink about it, before she was told Mike and Dee had already gotten married.
aprilp_katje,
I wouldn't put it past Liz to maintain an apartment solely for plausible deniability, until she and Anthony have exchanged their marriage vows.
It’s sort of like way Mike and Deanna treated Mira Sobinski, except opposite, where Deanna wanted her mom to think she was living in sin, when she really wasn’t. That still doesn’t make sense.
Anyway, considering that Liz already has the past of living with Eric, you would have to wonder for whom the plausible deniability would be? Anthony’s parents? Surely not Elly, whom we were told just last September was living with John before she got married to him. The importance in that retcon strip was that Elly and John were married before Michael was born. My guess is plausible deniability is really for a certain section of Lynn’s readers.
This week’s strips are not about the relationship of Anthony and Liz, so you’ve been focusing on the wrong thing. I think it would be more meaningful to examine how each adult is dealing with Françoise. The sleeping arrangement between Anthony and Liz is irrelevant for this arc.
Anon NYC
That's true, isn't it? John and Elly would not much care that Liz and Anthony are cohabiting but are aware that others might object. Strangely enough, Thérèse is not first on their list of people who'd have a problem with that. If I were to guess, I'd say that Anthony's parents were the people they'd have to keep things from based on the fact that Lynn likes to recycle plots. It's as if Deanna had married and divorced Perry before she married Michael. Like Mike before her, Liz is relying on John and Elly to keep her fiancé's hostile family at bay.
Anon NYC,
This week’s strips are not about the relationship of Anthony and Liz, so you’ve been focusing on the wrong thing.
I will have to respectfully disagree with you on this point and these are the reasons why:
In July and August, little Françoise had no problem with Liz, and Liz and Anthony were hugging (and in private kissing) on each other. In December, Liz and Anthony are speaking formally with each other, not touching each other, and yet use language which implies that they have every expectation of being with each other for a very, long time. That is a significant difference from the couple, who back in August said they were taking it slow. It seems instead like a couple who has jumped in feet first without taking the time to put their swimsuits on. Little Françoise now, no longer seems to like Liz that much, and is very clingy with her father. If I take the rules of cause and effect, my guess is that little Françoise’s actions are more effect than cause; so the cause needs to be addressed in order to understand the effect.
I see 3 characters whose actions with each other have changed since the last time they were seen together. In my opinion, examining how all the characters have changed in their relationship to each other is called for. Monday, I addressed the formal language, which is the aspect of this situation presented in the strip. Tuesday, I addressed how each adult should be dealing with Françoise, based on what she did in that strip. Wednesday, I addressed the new information of differences in Liz and Anthony’s relationship, because little Francie’s behaviour was not that different from Tuesday.
As for whether the sleeping arrangement between Anthony and Liz is irrelevant for this arc, I would have to disagree. Something has changed between these 3 characters, and I cannot say that little Francie’s behaviour is based solely on Liz’s taking attention from Anthony away from her. From my experience as a son of a single parent, I can tell you there is a big difference between the parent’s date which lasts an evening versus the one that lasts all night.
dreadedcandiru2,
Like Mike before her, Liz is relying on John and Elly to keep her fiancé's hostile family at bay.
Anthony’s family will surely have to make an appearance with an impending wedding. I have wondered, as have you, if Lynn will repeat “the fiancé's family is hostile” story. The only two appearances of Anthony’s mom in the archive show her as a white-haired grandmotherly type, so I expect Lynn would have to retcon her appearance to make hostility work.
I wouldn't put it past her to retcon Mrs Caine into a pain in the neck; she, after all, turned Mira into her idea of a belligerent loon for the sake of the plotline.
dreadedcandiru2,
The difference between Mira and Mrs. Caine, is that Mira made a number of appearances during the courtship phase of Mike and Deanna, whereas Mrs. Caine has made 2 1-panel appearances in the last 5 years, where the only reason you can tell she is Mrs. Caine is because she appears both at Anthony’s wedding and at Anthony’s baby shower. I know Lynn Johnston likes repetition, but there might not be enough time to turn both Françoise and her grandmother Caine into villains. On the other hand, Lynn made Shawna-Marie Verano’s mother into a villain, with no prior appearances.
All she needs to cast a character as an antagonist is to have them stand in the way of a Patterson or one of their lackeys in the pursuit of some ambition. Paul crossed the line when he burst the bubble on Liz's little fantasy that she could treat the people of Mtigwaki like extras in the movie of her life.
dreadedcandiru2,
The obvious choices for ambition would be (a) the quiet simple wedding espoused by Pattersons or (b) that Anthony would marry Liz in the first place. There is not much room for either of these, given the history we have had so far. Anthony and Thérèse’s wedding was nice, but relatively low key, i.e. we didn’t see a big reception after the wedding, just a receiving line. You would think if Mrs. Caine was a big wedding type, she would have complained then. To complain about something like that for a second wedding seems unlikely.
As for Liz and Anthony in the first place, you would think that complaint would have occurred back when they were originally dating in high school. However, Thérèse was not a part of the situation back then. The possibility that the Caines preferred Thérèse and greatly resent the part Elizabeth had to play in the destruction of her marriage to Anthony, seems unlikely, given the Thérèse and Anthony marriage retcon we had in September. Maybe they can just prefer Thérèse, and then Thérèse reappears to claim her former position with Anthony. That story would be very amusing, and is almost assuredly not going to happen.
The September strip about Elly and John being married before they had Mike doesn't clearly state that they lived together before they were married. The chronology in that strip is kind of vague.
I do agree, though, that it is very strange that Deanna was unwilling to live with Mike without being married, but had no problem with her mother thinking she was doing so.
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