John and Patience (Patients) Part IV
I seem to remember the rule of thumb in For Better or For Worse is if you can see the character’s teeth, then they are up to no good. Considering one of the main characters is a dentist, I find this rule of thumb to be somewhat ironic. In today’s For Better or For Worse reprint, it proves to be true. John and Elly are at a different party from yesterday, judging from Elly’s sleeveless look; and John is assaulted by a man whose mouth is constantly showing teeth, who knows a dentist joke, and seems determined to prove that John has no muscle mass in his left arm. Although the dentist joke is not funny, his efforts with respect to John’s muscle mass meet with some success. I am now no longer sure that 1979 John had a real left arm.
The final panel joke seems to work pretty well. Most times when people say, “No offense” it means they are offending someone. I am trying to remember the old comedian who used to say, “I hate you guys” as a part of his routine, but my internet searches keep coming up with Michael Richards and that can’t be right.
This is a strip which would not appear in the modern-day strip. Aside from the fact that Elly and John no longer attend parties like this, there is an interesting, pitying look on Elly’s face as she looks forlornly on as John takes this abuse from this man. Back in 1979, this man walks away without any response from John or Elly and without any comeuppance. If the same strip were to happen today, something would happen to the man as a result of the his actions. In this respect, I prefer the 1979 strip’s realism. There are simply people out in the world who are obnoxious and offensive, and it does no good whatsoever to tell them. They will just say, “No offense.”
The final panel joke seems to work pretty well. Most times when people say, “No offense” it means they are offending someone. I am trying to remember the old comedian who used to say, “I hate you guys” as a part of his routine, but my internet searches keep coming up with Michael Richards and that can’t be right.
This is a strip which would not appear in the modern-day strip. Aside from the fact that Elly and John no longer attend parties like this, there is an interesting, pitying look on Elly’s face as she looks forlornly on as John takes this abuse from this man. Back in 1979, this man walks away without any response from John or Elly and without any comeuppance. If the same strip were to happen today, something would happen to the man as a result of the his actions. In this respect, I prefer the 1979 strip’s realism. There are simply people out in the world who are obnoxious and offensive, and it does no good whatsoever to tell them. They will just say, “No offense.”
posted by howard at 11:41 PM
15 Comments:
How strange that the more cartoony the artwork, the more believable the Pattersons are. In thep ast, that man went on his merry way insulting passers by. Now, he would be made to suffer.
If the strip happened today, probably John would get up on a table at the party and explain to everyone how dentists are people too.
I am trying to remember the old comedian who used to say, “I hate you guys” as a part of his routine, but my internet searches keep coming up with Michael Richards and that can’t be right.
At first glance, when I saw that you mention Michael Richards, I thought you'd be making a reference to the Seinfeld episode where Jerry makes jokes and disparaging remarks about dentists and Kramer accuses Jerry of being an anti-dentite. ;)
dreadedcandiru2,
How strange that the more cartoony the artwork, the more believable the Pattersons are.
It is strange, but the writing was done a little differently in those days. Lynn has said in interviews, she took most of stories from her real life experiences or from stories given to her by others. In more recent interviews, Lynn said she sits on a couch in her office and writes them up. Young Lynn was more like Elly than older Lynn, even in terms of appearance. Older Lynn looks better, dresses better, is more articulate and is quite a bit more interesting than older Elly. I think Lynn finds it more difficult to get herself inside Elly's head than she used to, because their lives are much more different than they were, when they were both young mothers.
Ellie,
If the strip happened today, probably John would get up on a table at the party and explain to everyone how dentists are people too.
LOL. I completely agree. My thoughts were more along the lines of John slipping on ice outside the party and hurting himself, while the man thinks that if only he hadn’t offended John, this wouldn’t have happened.
aprilp_katje
At first glance, when I saw that you mention Michael Richards, I thought you'd be making a reference to the Seinfeld episode where Jerry makes jokes and disparaging remarks about dentists and Kramer accuses Jerry of being an anti-dentite. ;)
Unfortunately no. I searched on “I hate you guys” and “comedian” and got multiple hits on the Michard Richards' racist rant.
Sheesh. Maybe the guy hates dentistis because one has turned him into The Man Who Laughs (http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/wp-content/2007/04/ManWhoLaughs.jpg)with that frozen grin.
The only comedian I can remember whose entire schtick consisted of insults was Don Rickles. Sounds like something he would say.
The expressions do make me like the older strips better; thank goodness we don't have the "gobsmacked" look yet.
Howard:
Lynn has said in interviews, she took most of stories from her real life experiences or from stories given to her by others. In more recent interviews, Lynn said she sits on a couch in her office and writes them up. Young Lynn was more like Elly than older Lynn, even in terms of appearance. Older Lynn looks better, dresses better, is more articulate and is quite a bit more interesting than older Elly.
This raises a question: does Lynn really sympathize with Elly the way she used to? It sometimes seems that as Elly becomes less like Lynn, Lynn likes Elly less.
howard:
OH. Something just occured to me: John actually remembers these things having happened to him and how he felt at the time. So far in the flashbacks, there have been long stretches wherein we questioned if the person strolling down Memory Lane was actually present for the strips we saw.
debjyn,
Maybe the guy hates dentistis because one has turned him into The Man Who Laughs with that frozen grin.
That’s a scary picture. He looks like the Joker from Batman.
The only comedian I can remember whose entire schtick consisted of insults was Don Rickles. Sounds like something he would say.
That could be it. I can imagine Don Rickles saying that to someone, completely tongue-in-cheek though.
dreadedcandiru2
This raises a question: does Lynn really sympathize with Elly the way she used to?
There was one interview (the recent CBC one, I think) where Lynn said it was easy to get rich, because all you had to do was work hard and show up on time (or something silly like that). It showed how the way she got her career handed to her had removed her from that part of society which had to struggle hard to get anything of worth. I think this is the reason why Liz can find a job without looking, and Mike can get a book deal without trying, and in the case of Elly, she can have near-perfect children who do most everything she wants without showing any real parenting skills. On the other hand, there seems to be part of the Pattersons, which Lynn wants to show struggling, and to do that, she has to make them have problems which Lynn does not have. Lynn is thin, Elly is fat. Lynn is pretty, Elly has that turnip for a nose. Lynn dresses well, Elly dresses like a 90-year-old woman.
On the other hand Lynn is not happily married, Elly is. Lynn’s kids did not do what she wanted them to do for their careers, Elly’s did. Once Elly became an ideal for Lynn, I think she lost some sympathy.
John actually remembers these things having happened to him and how he felt at the time.
Yes, I think this is the first flashback, where the theme is actually being maintained in all the flashback strips, i.e. what we were expecting the first time the hybrid started.
The thing I notice is that John and Elly used to feel inferior to some people, and insecure. Now they think they are better than everyone else.
I strongly disagree with some things you have said, Howard, so I will do them point by point:
1. I don't think Lynn dresses all that well, but that is a matter of taste, and not worth arguing about.
2. Elly is NOT happily married. She is in a stable marriage, but it is not all that happy. She and John do not communicate well. They are not loving toward each other, except the few times John makes a special effort. This is somewhat inexplicable, given Elly's habit of bossing John around and belittling him. Just because people are not getting divorced, does not mean they are in a happy marriage. In fact, I think Lynn's marital unhappiness has caused her to draw them this way. I have observed that unhappily married people think all marriages work the way theirs does--it's a form of denial. Essentially, I think Elly has Lynn's marriage, but without the cheating and the divorce.
3. I think the fact that the stories are now just made up out of Lynn's mind have resulted in Elly being more like Lynn than ever before, but in a different way. Her experiences are different, but Elly's personality and attitudes are all Lynn, IMHO. Elly is now very self-centered and self-absorbed. She is pompous. She believes herself to be the queen of Milborough. She and John feel that many people in town owe their success and livelihoods to them. She is a bad parent who gives handouts to her kids to ensure their loyalty. This is very similar to the attitudes Lynn has expressed. Furthermore, it shows how much Lynn is out of touch with how the real world works. Notice that the high society types we see at these parties have vanished from Milborough. That is because they would get in the way of Elly's status as Queen Bee who still gets to dress like a total frump.
qnjones,
The thing I notice is that John and Elly used to feel inferior to some people, and insecure. Now they think they are better than everyone else.
This is one aspect of the old John and Elly I miss. I remember the old story where John and Phil get lost on their canoeing trip from hell, and the vulnerability of Elly and Georgia wondering if their husbands were going to come back alive. I liked that story, but it would seem very out-of-place in the modern For Better or For Worse.
2. Elly is NOT happily married. She is in a stable marriage, but it is not all that happy. She and John do not communicate well.
They are not loving toward each other, except the few times John makes a special effort. This is somewhat inexplicable, given Elly's habit of bossing John around and belittling him.
I think you mean “explicable”, unless you are saying bossing and belittling husbands causes them to be more loving.
Just because people are not getting divorced, does not mean they are in a happy marriage.
Doing a brief internet search, the ten marks of a happy marriage are:
1. COMMITMENT. Basically this is --- I am not married to anyone else; I take you ... to be my lawful wedded wife/husband; forsaking all others I will be lovingly committed to you for life. I think Elly and John have this one.
2. LOVING ACCEPTANCE: A good marriage is the union of two good forgivers. John seems to have forgiven Elly for all the abuse (hurled coffee cups and shrieking) he has taken from her over the years; but Elly still seems to bear a grudge for him not doing housework all those years. I would give a + for John and a – for Elly.
3. RESPECT. OK. John doesn’t get much respect from Elly, and especially in the early strips gave Elly very little respect. Elly has earned most of the respect she receives through intimidation. This is the weakest part of their marriage, in my opinion.
4. MATURITY AND RESPONSIBILITY. For the most part, Elly and John do this. They were able to maintain jobs and feed their kids and the like, even though their lives have been peppered with a number of bad parenting moments.
5. INTIMACY: We had an Elly and John going to the bedroom and having pillow fights in the strip within the last 2 years.
6. CONFLICT RESOLUTION. Generally this means John has to convince Elly; however, when issues come up, they get resolved, even it if it takes 2 years.
7. MONEY. They do discuss money as we have seen, but make majour decisions and inform the other one after the fact. In general John and Elly seem to resolve their issues with money.
8. GENDER ROLES AND SEX. We had an Elly and John going to the bedroom strip 2 years ago. As for gender roles, John has improved over the years, where he is willing to load a dishwasher and do the laundry, but Elly still does the majority of the housework.
9. SPIRITUALITY. If it’s fate…they’ll attend church on Easter. John and Elly are not into spirituality at all, as near as I can tell.
10. HAVE REGULAR MARRIAGE CHECK-UPS: They take their annual trip to Mexico without the kids, which is about as close as they get.
Elly and John don’t hit all those marks, so by this definition they are not happy. I agree with your assessment.
Elly is now very self-centered and self-absorbed. She is pompous.
Could be. The standard is for another character to praise Elly a praise, which Elly neither confirms nor denies. So, you have a kind of modesty, but not much.
She believes herself to be the queen of Milborough.
I don’t even see Elly interacting with Milborough, aside from that one Sunday strip where it showed Elly doing all these things in Milborough she had never been seen doing before or since. Elly seems almost like a hermit with a family and an old neighbour that occasionally visit, although she and John will go to a holiday party.
My understanding is that "inexplicable' means "not able to be explained." I do not see an explanation for why John acts loving toward Elly sometimes.
I personally would come up with a different checklist for a happy marriage. I would also not count one or two instances of good behavior amongst hundreds of bad ones as counting for much. I think my standards for what I would call a good marriage are much higher than yours. I personally only know one or two couples I would call happily married, and I have never seen a marriage I would be happy being a part of. I think I am probably too idealistic on this score, but even by the standards of pro-marriage types I know, John and Elly have a nearly intolerable marriage, not a good one or even an okay one.
I say that Elly thinks she is Queen of Milborough not because she gets out and interacts much. I say it because she and John enjoy their social position WAY too much. John really gets off on being able to horn in on Gordo's business because he invested in it. Both Elly and John revel in the unearned compliments they get from people like Gordo, Anthony, Moira, Beatrice, Connie, etc. Everyone defers to them as if they are somehow the pillars of the community, and not just another lazy middle-aged couple that rarely does anything outside the home.
qnjones,
I personally would come up with a different checklist for a happy marriage.
Well, as I said, I just picked the first one that popped up on an internet search.
I would also not count one or two instances of good behavior amongst hundreds of bad ones as counting for much.
Me either, but oftentimes I was going for final results, since you can’t see all the instances in a comic strip.
I think my standards for what I would call a good marriage are much higher than yours.
Higher? Maybe. I don’t know what your standards are, but considering the numbers you quote, it’s safe to say you have standards that no humans could meet.
I personally only know one or two couples I would call happily married, and I have never seen a marriage I would be happy being a part of.
Sheesh! Only 2 happy and 0 good enough for you? Well qnjones, I am not sure what to make of that. You either have unrealistic expectations or you just don’t know many people. Statistics show that 50% of marriages do not end in divorce, but statistically measuring happiness is subjective depending on the standards you use.
I went through the checklist of things for a happy marriage and found that my wife and I met the qualifications, at least in my opinion. My wife probably might have a different opinion, and you probably would too, since you only know 2 happy couples. I know many more than 2.
I have noticed what women want in marriages alters over a period of time. In the beginning, there is the very picky stage. Then later the old stereotypical biological clock comes into play and changes things up. Thank goodness for that or, ugly fat guy that I am, I would have never gotten married. I know people make jokes about it, but I have seen it in action. My older sister, who swore in her teenaged years that she was never going to have kids, started openly weeping whenever she saw a picture of a baby. This is when the woman goes from the “only a handsome, millionaire who worships me will be acceptable” to “a guy who loves me, is a decent guy, and has a decent job will be acceptable, even if he is not all that pretty”. For some women, that biological clock never ticks and they stay picky. I know a lot of women like that too.
I remember some years back there was a survey taken of couples who had been married for a long time to find out the secret of their marriage. One of the things they discovered, and which upset a number of women who did not want to believe it, is that the overwhelming secret of the successful marriage was to acquiesce to your wife in order to avoid a fight. This is no great secret among men. The old joke is “When we got married, my wife and I agreed that she would decide all the unimportant decisions, and I would decide the important ones. In 30 years of marriage, I have not made a decision yet.”
I think I am probably too idealistic on this score, but even by the standards of pro-marriage types I know, John and Elly have a nearly intolerable marriage, not a good one or even an okay one.
When I look at John Patterson and the abuse he sometimes takes from Elly, I also see a man who has learned over the years to avoid battles with Elly. He has learned the secret of a long term marriage. As for his real life counterparts, it appears that Rod has not learned that secret.
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